This is spawned from a thought I had with Coby's mention of "onboard/October ship time". I could Google this, but I figure it's more fun to ask here.
Does Trek lore account for time dilation at all? Does warping space to travel FTL just make time dilation ... a non-issue?
I know it takes into account gravitational sling, but I don't know about Time Dilation. I would assume so.
The..only thing I hate about Trek lore when it comes to FTL travel is how it's different to nearly everyother sci-fi show, or series.
To catch people up, in ST lore, the warp drive surrounds the ship within a bubble of magically energy (Subspace bubble) in order to get past that pesky rule of unable to get FTL in our dimension, this allows them to exceed FTL speeds while still being technically in our dimension.
I'm gonna use Stargate as my other example, but this theory covers sci-fi such as Halo, and most other hyperspace using people. In SG, hyperspace is a level of subspace that they burrow into in order to bypass that still pesky rule of being unable to exceed the speed of light.
Now I hate to bring this..awful ST lore rule up, however, if a ship in the ST universe were to..exceed that lovely little limit AKA Warp 10 the threshold (SeewutIdidthar) of said ability, that ship supposedly goes into subspace and is everywhere in the galaxy/universe at once.
Gorram Star Trek.
Anyway back to the topic at hand, no its a non-issue, the ships never leave the dimension so time doesn't change at all. Ships usually have their own set time scale, of I assume a 24 hour segments to make it the same as Earth, some ships will allign their chronomiters to the station they are based with i.e, DS9 and the Defiant. So it could be assumed that in our merry fleet, ships based around the sector would be on the same time allignment as Outpost Argo, those ships that fly off to do their own business could still be with the station, or could be with a federation/sector/whatever standard time.
To catch people up, in ST lore, the warp drive surrounds the ship within a bubble of magically energy (Subspace bubble) in order to get past that pesky rule of unable to get FTL in our dimension, this allows them to exceed FTL speeds while still being technically in our dimension.
I'm gonna use Stargate as my other example, but this theory covers sci-fi such as Halo, and most other hyperspace using people. In SG, hyperspace is a level of subspace that they burrow into in order to bypass that still pesky rule of being unable to exceed the speed of light.
Now I hate to bring this..awful ST lore rule up, however, if a ship in the ST universe were to..exceed that lovely little limit AKA Warp 10 the threshold (SeewutIdidthar) of said ability, that ship supposedly goes into subspace and is everywhere in the galaxy/universe at once.
Gorram Star Trek.
Anyway back to the topic at hand, no its a non-issue, the ships never leave the dimension so time doesn't change at all. Ships usually have their own set time scale, of I assume a 24 hour segments to make it the same as Earth, some ships will allign their chronomiters to the station they are based with i.e, DS9 and the Defiant. So it could be assumed that in our merry fleet, ships based around the sector would be on the same time allignment as Outpost Argo, those ships that fly off to do their own business could still be with the station, or could be with a federation/sector/whatever standard time.
On the Warp 10 issue. I absolutely hated that episode in Voyager because of that issue. I think it was the Memory Alpha page that tried to explain it away, however, seeing as there are other in-canon references of ships going past Warp 10. To sum it up, it was saying that the actual warp ratings have been re-calculated throughout history and warp speeds from one series to another (especially the jump from TOS to Modern Trek) are not in sync.
Yeah no kidding, aha.
I personally like to see the changes as them getting a better bubble, say for example you get a collection of balloons from 15 years ago to now, the modern ones might be slightly tougher easier to do stuff with, whereas the old ones are more..flimsey. A bit of a bad simile, but it works.
I personally like to see the changes as them getting a better bubble, say for example you get a collection of balloons from 15 years ago to now, the modern ones might be slightly tougher easier to do stuff with, whereas the old ones are more..flimsey. A bit of a bad simile, but it works.
Trek has 26hr days. No clue how long months/seasons or even years are. But days are 26hrs long. DS9 and VOY both stated this... not sure how they came up with it. As for the rest, Eli nailed it perfectly and I have nothing to add as he said it all.
Warp 10 was recently discussed in another thread. Warp 10 does not = magic. warp 9.99999999999999 is not at the brink of traveling at /god_speed so the Warp 10 junk from VOY is something that has to be summed up to mechanics in the warp drive, basically the bubble becomes unstable at warp 10 and does that trick... but better warp cores can go faster hense EVERY trek series showing ships traveling at Warp 10+. Even according to Memory Alpha and Beta from Earth to Memory Alpha, at Warp 10, takes several days. So, it clearly can't be magic speed. So, lets just all collectively agree that that episode was Janeways nightmare and leave it there.
Warp 10 was recently discussed in another thread. Warp 10 does not = magic. warp 9.99999999999999 is not at the brink of traveling at /god_speed so the Warp 10 junk from VOY is something that has to be summed up to mechanics in the warp drive, basically the bubble becomes unstable at warp 10 and does that trick... but better warp cores can go faster hense EVERY trek series showing ships traveling at Warp 10+. Even according to Memory Alpha and Beta from Earth to Memory Alpha, at Warp 10, takes several days. So, it clearly can't be magic speed. So, lets just all collectively agree that that episode was Janeways nightmare and leave it there.
I uh. Maybe I'm remembering my high school physics incorrectly but...
What does time dilation have to do with different dimensions?
What does time dilation have to do with different dimensions?
Aha Dewey, I didn't mean magic as in wand swishy magic, I was just using the word for the sake of it, when writing about stuff like this is always type how I would say it to a person in front of me, its a failing, but what have ya.
26hr days cool, I couldn't remember myself so I'm glad someone could correct me. And again thanks on clarifying the bubble break.
And Kat, it has nothing to do with it...least for what I can remember but it is nearly 4AM, brain isnt all buzzy, anyway!
I used the dimension thing to expand on the answer as to why there isn't a time dilation, and forgive me, I should of clarified, for that explanation dimension and subspace are being put under the same roof, dimensions of space time..or some jargon that I have no qualifications to explain.
I re-read my first post and no see how awful I am at naming things the same to help the reader.
I'm gonna go to bed now.
26hr days cool, I couldn't remember myself so I'm glad someone could correct me. And again thanks on clarifying the bubble break.
And Kat, it has nothing to do with it...least for what I can remember but it is nearly 4AM, brain isnt all buzzy, anyway!
I used the dimension thing to expand on the answer as to why there isn't a time dilation, and forgive me, I should of clarified, for that explanation dimension and subspace are being put under the same roof, dimensions of space time..or some jargon that I have no qualifications to explain.
I re-read my first post and no see how awful I am at naming things the same to help the reader.
I'm gonna go to bed now.
The different dimensions is how they circumvent the time dilation effect. It's pretty much the go around in every Sci-Fi universe that uses faster-than-light travel. Star Wars has Hyperspace, Trek has Warp Bubbles, etc. They really have nothing directly to do with each other, it's just their way to make it make sense.
The way i understand it, current scientific theory postulates that the closer an object travels to light speed, the more time becomes distended. Best series that shows this that I'm aware of is the Ender's Game books. The first one touches on it, but the follow-ups go more in-depth. Great read.
Also, if my understanding of the theory of relatively is up to date, if you go beyond the speed of light you are literally losing mass and becoming energy the faster you go.
The way i understand it, current scientific theory postulates that the closer an object travels to light speed, the more time becomes distended. Best series that shows this that I'm aware of is the Ender's Game books. The first one touches on it, but the follow-ups go more in-depth. Great read.
Also, if my understanding of the theory of relatively is up to date, if you go beyond the speed of light you are literally losing mass and becoming energy the faster you go.
The way I understand it, bringing back to the stated question, is thus:
Star Trek science and engineering has had centuries of working with warp and impulse speeds. Therefore, the computer AutoMagically makes adjustments to just how fast (or slow) it's running the clock, relative to the Real World. There's these nifty things called Constants; in this case, it's the positions of the stars: Hence "Star date." Stellar Cartography is used to bounce off the inertial calculations of the Time Dilation Log, correcting and updating the Ship's Clock as it goes along. Gotta love redundancy!
THEN! There's that little tidbit that states that "Full Impulse" power (according to the TNG tech manual, I believe, I don't have it readily available at the moment) is actually somewhere around 0.5C (1/2 the speed of light) in order to minimize time dilation effects. faster sublight speeds are possible, but not recommended; it's more efficient just to go to warp 1 at that point.
Star Trek science and engineering has had centuries of working with warp and impulse speeds. Therefore, the computer AutoMagically makes adjustments to just how fast (or slow) it's running the clock, relative to the Real World. There's these nifty things called Constants; in this case, it's the positions of the stars: Hence "Star date." Stellar Cartography is used to bounce off the inertial calculations of the Time Dilation Log, correcting and updating the Ship's Clock as it goes along. Gotta love redundancy!
THEN! There's that little tidbit that states that "Full Impulse" power (according to the TNG tech manual, I believe, I don't have it readily available at the moment) is actually somewhere around 0.5C (1/2 the speed of light) in order to minimize time dilation effects. faster sublight speeds are possible, but not recommended; it's more efficient just to go to warp 1 at that point.
Also, if my understanding of the theory of relatively is up to date, if you go beyond the speed of light you are literally losing mass and becoming energy the faster you go.
At the speed of light mass becomes infinite.
Translation for Kat:
"It uses space magic so that the aspects of General Relativity you are worried about don't apply on a large scale."
The massive speeds of impulse would have an effect, but it is manageable and ship clocks are designed to compensate which is why they can detect funky stuff when it goofs up.
"It uses space magic so that the aspects of General Relativity you are worried about don't apply on a large scale."
The massive speeds of impulse would have an effect, but it is manageable and ship clocks are designed to compensate which is why they can detect funky stuff when it goofs up.