Official Orville discussion thread. All those who enter beware of spoilers.
So, I was watching the second episode with my grandmother the other day, and to keep in mind, she's been a star trek fan since the show first aired back in 1966, and she could have sworn that the Orville was set in the Star Trek universe, spent nearly an hour trying to explain it wasn't actually Star Trek. I guess my point is, if my Grandmother, a nearly life long Star Trek fan couldn't tell the difference, Seth MacFarlane is hitting the right areas he wanted to with this show being a homage to Star Trek.
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It certainly hasn't done anything new that Trek hasn't so far, but it certainly feels fresher than any Trek show. Mayne it's the new characters, or the fact that the tropes are why we loved Trek to begin with.
Or maybe it's because the show is less "sanitized" than Trek. I mean I can't even see something like DS9 tackle a cheating spouce plotline like Orville is. Well not without making it cringy...
Or maybe it's because the show is less "sanitized" than Trek. I mean I can't even see something like DS9 tackle a cheating spouce plotline like Orville is. Well not without making it cringy...
So at risk of developing a reputation as a hater (pause for laughter), I wasn't wild about the Orville pilot. It made me laugh a few times, but not nearly as many times as it tried to, so viewed as a comedy it didn't really work for me. As a sci-fi/drama, it seemed pretty forgettable. My question for those of you who have seen the episodes since is: if I'm not on this show's wavelength after the first episode, is it worth watching more? Does anything significantly change after that?
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It is. The amount of jokes actually lessen and integrate more.
I would, without any joking, call the third episode - About A Girl - one of the BEST episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen. They went places I never thought they would and handled it with ambiguity, nuance and light-heartedness when needed.
The jokes landed flat sometimes in episode one, less in episode two. This third aired episode was very, very, very good. I was blown away.
I would, without any joking, call the third episode - About A Girl - one of the BEST episodes of Star Trek I've ever seen. They went places I never thought they would and handled it with ambiguity, nuance and light-heartedness when needed.
The jokes landed flat sometimes in episode one, less in episode two. This third aired episode was very, very, very good. I was blown away.
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As an addition, I thought ti was odd they aired two episodes in one week; but after how phenomenal About A Girl was, I think it's likely to get this in before DSC hits. To show what they are capable of before this show hits.
I cannot highlight how impressive what they did is, especially considering Seth's other shows and how much I personally dislike them.
I cannot highlight how impressive what they did is, especially considering Seth's other shows and how much I personally dislike them.
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I wouldn't drop a show after just its pilot. I'd give it a few episodes before dropping it completely. It's definitely gotten better since episode 1.
spoilers for, well, you know:
Spoiler: Show
I can almost sort of imagine the whole thing being the result of Moclans not really having a concept of gender before, and the Union's first-contact team including some particularly clueless officer(s) who took one look at the physical characteristics - big, muscular, deep voiced, etc - and declared "oh, so you're all male, then."
And from "Male? What is male?", they eventually adopted "We are all male" as a cultural article of faith.
Meanwhile, the one actual biologist on said team is trying to get the idiots to listen, and face-palming when they don't.
(This, of course, is the in-universe or "Watsonian" theory. The meta or "Doylist" version is simply that it's a setup for some rather lowbrow and/or juvenile jokes that say as much (none of it good) about our own stupid cultural prejudices as anything.)
And from "Male? What is male?", they eventually adopted "We are all male" as a cultural article of faith.
Meanwhile, the one actual biologist on said team is trying to get the idiots to listen, and face-palming when they don't.
(This, of course, is the in-universe or "Watsonian" theory. The meta or "Doylist" version is simply that it's a setup for some rather lowbrow and/or juvenile jokes that say as much (none of it good) about our own stupid cultural prejudices as anything.)
I wouldn't drop a show after just its pilot.
Life is short and precious. Generally speaking a show that is not entertaining me will not get second chances. Orville is sitting on the margin right now; I strongly suspect that this is a show that will have a better shot at hooking me in season 2, after the cast has had time to gel and it has gotten its comedic rhythms figured out. But I will probably give episode 2 a chance based on these recommendations before I shelve it for the time being.
spoilers for, well, you know:
Spoiler: Show
I can almost sort of imagine the whole thing being the result of Moclans not really having a concept of gender before, and the Union's first-contact team including some particularly clueless officer(s) who took one look at the physical characteristics - big, muscular, deep voiced, etc - and declared "oh, so you're all male, then."
And from "Male? What is male?", they eventually adopted "We are all male" as a cultural article of faith.
Meanwhile, the one actual biologist on said team is trying to get the idiots to listen, and face-palming when they don't.
(This, of course, is the in-universe or "Watsonian" theory. The meta or "Doylist" version is simply that it's a setup for some rather lowbrow and/or juvenile jokes that say as much (none of it good) about our own stupid cultural prejudices as anything.)
And from "Male? What is male?", they eventually adopted "We are all male" as a cultural article of faith.
Meanwhile, the one actual biologist on said team is trying to get the idiots to listen, and face-palming when they don't.
(This, of course, is the in-universe or "Watsonian" theory. The meta or "Doylist" version is simply that it's a setup for some rather lowbrow and/or juvenile jokes that say as much (none of it good) about our own stupid cultural prejudices as anything.)
Spoiler: My two centsShow
I like that explanation as well.
The thing is, aliens have to conform in these worlds to human norms and language, because IRL, that's what we speak. Likely that also explains WHY the see as being 'female' as a mutation that ruins lives. To them, it is a mutation that ruins lives less because 'female' and more because it's just not the singular norm they have.
I figure it's more an outside attribution of language that got applied because Mocluns(sp?) are masculine as hell by human standards.
The thing is, aliens have to conform in these worlds to human norms and language, because IRL, that's what we speak. Likely that also explains WHY the see as being 'female' as a mutation that ruins lives. To them, it is a mutation that ruins lives less because 'female' and more because it's just not the singular norm they have.
I figure it's more an outside attribution of language that got applied because Mocluns(sp?) are masculine as hell by human standards.
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Sivath, trust me and watch Episode 2 and 3 back to back before you 'give up'. Two ties into three, and three was...wow. Whoa. Good. Very very good. Like, good Trek episode good. I'm the last person to say 'watch it ALL THE WAY BEFORE YOU SAY YOU DON'T LIKE IT' because there are just signs that you know things might not be your bag (ex: Me + DSC).
Three shows the real potential of this series though. It outdoes most of Voyager in episode 3.
Three shows the real potential of this series though. It outdoes most of Voyager in episode 3.
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There are still places in episode three where Mcfarlane's dumb half pokes through, like the awful dick joke with the blob guy. Just straight-up sexual harassment.
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lol as a chick it didn't bother me. I laughed. He's an agender blob after all
It just felt totally out of whack with the rest of the episode.
I donno.. I mean, it seems to me like it was added in to show that even though the episode is focused on the baby, life for the rest of the ship keeps moving on.
and it gives Norm McDonald a small paycheck in a world where his relevance has gone down enough that his career is mostly being one of 2 version of the KFC Colonel, lol.
Sivath, shows do take time to find their footings. TNG stunk until season 3. DS9 was mediocre with flashes of brilliance, again before season 3. Voyager even goes from almost unwatchable to decent after season 2 ends. Enterprise got consistently good with season 3 and finally found its footing in season 4.
My point is, don't give up on a show just because its pilot sucked. If we did that we may not have any of the Modern Trek shows at all.
My point is, don't give up on a show just because its pilot sucked. If we did that we may not have any of the Modern Trek shows at all.
My point is, don't give up on a show just because its pilot sucked. If we did that we may not have any of the Modern Trek shows at all.
I get what you're saying, that a show which is not so great at the outset could become great later. (I'm resisting the urge to debate the merits of TNG seasons 1-2. RESISTING.) And I think it's valid to say that if I watch a pilot and come away feeling like it was not quite working but has potential, then by all means, I should try to support it by tuning in when it broadcasts. (If I'm watching any other way than the ones that deliver money into the owners' pockets, I'm not really supporting the show in any meaningful way.)
On the other hand, if I watch the show and I'm just not feeling it, I reject the notion that I owe it to the show to stick around and keep watching because it might someday find its way to being good. I work long hours and I have two kids to take care of at home; I get maybe two hours of entertainment time per day unless I am willing to really cut into my sleep (and I already don't get enough). Time is my most precious resource. There is so much great entertainment out there, not least this RP community we're in, that I couldn't keep up with all of it if I tried. Why waste time waiting for a show to get good?
If it finds its feet in later seasons, I'm sure I'll hear about it. If it doesn't last long enough to get there, the show hasn't given me any reason yet to consider that a loss.
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and it gives Norm McDonald a small paycheck in a world where his relevance has gone down enough that his career is mostly being one of 2 version of the KFC Colonel, lol.
He's still awesome and I'm glad he's in the show
The show is great so far and the third episode was the best Trek episode since DS9 ended
I like it. I just saw episode 3 and it's a classic trek dilemma show with a sad ending. Excellent episode indeed.
The show still needs more laughs and better laughs, but it does have some decent comedy. I think because it also has to be a scifi drama that the two conflict.
The show still needs more laughs and better laughs, but it does have some decent comedy. I think because it also has to be a scifi drama that the two conflict.