This may be an interesting possible explanation indeed...
Given that Oh is a traitor to the Federation, they went easy on her but I'm sure that won't be the last we'll see of her and the Romulans. Considering they lost their home planet not that long ago, they fielded a pretty large fleet, if this fleet belongs to a covert organization, wonder how large the regular Romulan fleets are.
Was Rikers uniform the same one we saw early in the season and the one we have in the game? It looked a lot like the Sierra uniform from STO.
As for the Starfleet clone ship force (lol), as noted above while it seems a bit on the lazy side, it probably was a huge time saver rather than create several ships types for just one scene, plus as also noted above, perhaps Starfleet is moving more in the direction of multi-purpose ships as opposed to having just science ships or just exploration ships. That's not to say they don't exist anymore but it makes sense in way to reduce all the variety and just keep fewer classes that can do little bit of everything or refited for a certain role.
Was Rikers uniform the same one we saw early in the season and the one we have in the game? It looked a lot like the Sierra uniform from STO.
As for the Starfleet clone ship force (lol), as noted above while it seems a bit on the lazy side, it probably was a huge time saver rather than create several ships types for just one scene, plus as also noted above, perhaps Starfleet is moving more in the direction of multi-purpose ships as opposed to having just science ships or just exploration ships. That's not to say they don't exist anymore but it makes sense in way to reduce all the variety and just keep fewer classes that can do little bit of everything or refited for a certain role.
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Was Rikers uniform the same one we saw early in the season and the one we have in the game? It looked a lot like the Sierra uniform from STO.
He's wearing the standard uniform for Starfleet in 2399, while yes it looks close to the Sierra, I like this version more since it's more solid and less like a leather jacket
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I hope they do explain where did Zhat Vash get that entire fleet of warbirds, especially after all that happened with Hobus supernova. Generally, showing what exactly happened to both RSE and Klingon Empire would be interesting.
Also, Starfleet just sitting on 200 top of the line ships just in range of the Coppelius is very meh to me. Even if the Riker went to nearest SF base immediately after Picard left, it's very stretched timewise.
That said, I'm generally glad with the finale, especially with closure regarding Data. I'm honestly intrigued what will happen next - especially to Jurati as she's still guilty for a murder.
Also, Starfleet just sitting on 200 top of the line ships just in range of the Coppelius is very meh to me. Even if the Riker went to nearest SF base immediately after Picard left, it's very stretched timewise.
That said, I'm generally glad with the finale, especially with closure regarding Data. I'm honestly intrigued what will happen next - especially to Jurati as she's still guilty for a murder.
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Maybe they could have opted for something like a few 'core' ships like the Zheng He, and some variations for ligther escort vessels (like the Miranda for the Constitution, or the Nebula for the Galaxy). That would have made more sense. There are differences in the nacelles already, but....
I think the Romulan fleet was a Tal Shiar fleet, and most in it likely don't know Oh was Zhat Vash outside the command ship or don't care beyond following their orders. We've seen Tal Shiar can commandeer imperial ships anyway. So I suspect the entire task force wasn't strictly Zhat Vash.
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I thought that there were already a number of different designs present. Some of them looked more like a Sovvy, and some looked more like an Avenger or Odyssey, and I also thought I saw a few Defiant-lineage ships in the mix when they did the arrival sequence and La Sirena was taking up position at the head of the fleet.
As for where they came from, don't forget that Clancy had already gathered a fleet that she intended to put Picard in charge of, prior to him running off and doing his own thing, then needing the bail-out. As it was effectively a pre-planned operation, and they had a good idea as to the OpFor's numbers and classes, courtesy of Picard, I'm not surprised they were able to put together 200 capital starships on moderately short notice.
I suspect that a fair part of it was gathering up units on routine operations and directing them to a series of intermediate points, then a final rendezvous, and then jumping them in en mass from there. I suspect that they may well have stripped a sector or two of ships to do it.
I also suspect that they could have done the job with a lot fewer Starships, but deliberately sent a massively overwhelming force to ensure that even the most arrogant, conceited and kool-aidest Romulan commander wouldn't try to fight their way past them to do it anyway.
It also makes sense for Starfleet to have a decently sized force of " toughest, fastest, most powerful ships Starfleet has ever put into service", given what happened during the Dominion War. You can, after all, use a battleship to do the 25th century equivalent of a coastal survey, but you can't put a survey ship in the Line of Battle.
As for where they came from, don't forget that Clancy had already gathered a fleet that she intended to put Picard in charge of, prior to him running off and doing his own thing, then needing the bail-out. As it was effectively a pre-planned operation, and they had a good idea as to the OpFor's numbers and classes, courtesy of Picard, I'm not surprised they were able to put together 200 capital starships on moderately short notice.
I suspect that a fair part of it was gathering up units on routine operations and directing them to a series of intermediate points, then a final rendezvous, and then jumping them in en mass from there. I suspect that they may well have stripped a sector or two of ships to do it.
I also suspect that they could have done the job with a lot fewer Starships, but deliberately sent a massively overwhelming force to ensure that even the most arrogant, conceited and kool-aidest Romulan commander wouldn't try to fight their way past them to do it anyway.
It also makes sense for Starfleet to have a decently sized force of " toughest, fastest, most powerful ships Starfleet has ever put into service", given what happened during the Dominion War. You can, after all, use a battleship to do the 25th century equivalent of a coastal survey, but you can't put a survey ship in the Line of Battle.
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I checked again and again that part of the episode. I can assure you they all the same vessel, with just some with different nacelles.
I agree on how they could have gathered the fleet (it is still a bit contrived in my opinion, but at least it could be a sort of explanation). However, still cannot fully accept the fact that they used the same model for so many ships. Ten, twenty...even thirty ships I could have accepted. Two hundreds....is a bit too much. I may agree also that Starfleet is changing its approach toward starship contruction, as Jarok suggested, but also in this case variety in a fleet is always necessary to keep the necessary operational flexibility (not to mention the cool visual effect, in our case).
I agree on how they could have gathered the fleet (it is still a bit contrived in my opinion, but at least it could be a sort of explanation). However, still cannot fully accept the fact that they used the same model for so many ships. Ten, twenty...even thirty ships I could have accepted. Two hundreds....is a bit too much. I may agree also that Starfleet is changing its approach toward starship contruction, as Jarok suggested, but also in this case variety in a fleet is always necessary to keep the necessary operational flexibility (not to mention the cool visual effect, in our case).
There is a dismaying tendency in modern media to keep raising the stakes and throwing more CGI at the screen until it all becomes meaningless (because we all know "like you would ever actually do it", i.e., end the ______) and incomprehensible.
That's my error, then.
I suppose that, if you're doing a pre-planned operation where you know you're potentially going to be tangling with 214 Romulan Warbirds (which have always been shown as the opposite of a pushover), you're going to bring the biggest, ugliest batch of nasties you can, especially if you have reasonable grounds to suspect that the opposing commander is not playing with a full deck. If Oh had thought that there was the slightest chance of going through Riker's command, she'd have tried. As it was, with the combination of near-numerical parity and some ships she didn't want to tangle with, she stood down.
In terms of numbers, Starfleet had sufficient hulls during the Dominion War that one fleet (Seventh) took 87.5% casualties during a single action (14 surviving units out of 112) and was back to full strength (or greater) within a year and resuming offensive operations. One (Beta canon) source I have access to puts total Dominion War casualties (Romulan, Federation and Klingon) at 945,000 military personnel, and 6 million civilians, as we know Cardassian losses were 800 million. That's going to have affected defence policy, especially with the Mars attack taking place a few years later, so I can imagine a big build-up of heavy starships being a popular policy. That said, we could easily have been looking at most of the total capital firepower for the Beta quadrant, deployed on a single operation.
I suppose that, if you're doing a pre-planned operation where you know you're potentially going to be tangling with 214 Romulan Warbirds (which have always been shown as the opposite of a pushover), you're going to bring the biggest, ugliest batch of nasties you can, especially if you have reasonable grounds to suspect that the opposing commander is not playing with a full deck. If Oh had thought that there was the slightest chance of going through Riker's command, she'd have tried. As it was, with the combination of near-numerical parity and some ships she didn't want to tangle with, she stood down.
In terms of numbers, Starfleet had sufficient hulls during the Dominion War that one fleet (Seventh) took 87.5% casualties during a single action (14 surviving units out of 112) and was back to full strength (or greater) within a year and resuming offensive operations. One (Beta canon) source I have access to puts total Dominion War casualties (Romulan, Federation and Klingon) at 945,000 military personnel, and 6 million civilians, as we know Cardassian losses were 800 million. That's going to have affected defence policy, especially with the Mars attack taking place a few years later, so I can imagine a big build-up of heavy starships being a popular policy. That said, we could easily have been looking at most of the total capital firepower for the Beta quadrant, deployed on a single operation.
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So, According to Michael Chabon, the Starfleet fleet we see is not all made up of the same ships, he'll be posting a full detail information soon about the different ships in the fleet that we see.
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I did notice that some of them had different nacelles.
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Update, it has been confirmed that there were four different ship classes in the Starfleet armada
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I also have a Real World (not in universe) explanation for why they all look like: The designers have sort of admitted that they finished the Visual Effects on approximately the 20th of March, about a week before broadcast (possibly partially due to Covid-19) and that they didn't have more time to make lots more varied models and do all the renders and stuff. I also suspect that a lot of the prior SFX wouldn't have been importable without people asking questions like 'why are they still using those two Miranda class starships covering the Defiant then going bang'.
If that's true there is a possibility the task force will get improvements by the time the blu-ray comes out perhaps.
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I sincerely hope he was not referring just to the nacelles (as I fear he is doing). But we'll find it out with the blu-ray, I agree with Dex.
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Picard's death-but-not-actual-death annoyed me. That entire plot point was unnecessary imo.
Other than that niggle, and the same ship niggle, it was an alright end.
Other than that niggle, and the same ship niggle, it was an alright end.
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Picard's death-but-not-actual-death annoyed me. That entire plot point was unnecessary imo.
Other than that niggle, and the same ship niggle, it was an alright end.
Other than that niggle, and the same ship niggle, it was an alright end.
Picard's "ressurection" was I feel a little predictable once we saw that the biotransferance thing had been solved.
The ship thing. I was a little disappointed to not spot a few recognisable ship designs like a sovereign or intrepid etc
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Speaking about Intrepids, what I really found contrived, in the overall season plot, is Seven of Nine's story and behavior. Where is the Voyager crew? Where is Chakotay? I strongly doubt people like them, and Janeway first of all, would have accepted Icheb death so passively, or not found a way to help Seven also on a personal level. They are not even mentioned once, it's like they didn't exist at all (or maybe did I miss the references?)
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