Star Trek: Picard (Spoiler thread)

Argo Discussion General Chat
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I tend to agree with @Mudd. Everything seems to point in that direction.

But, anyway, I’m quickly loosing any interest in the resolution. Now that we have discovered another dark Starfleet secret (oh yeah) I wonder what the whole purpose of preserving Starfleet means, at this point.
Starfleet people torturing Changelings in order to transform them into better spies (what a wonderful idea, what could possiblty go wrong, by the way?) is just another blow for the original representation of Starfleet itself and the Federation. And I don’t like it at all.
At this point, the only thing reminding us that Starfleet is ‘good’ are the empty words of characters, that’s it. And this is not right.
This is becoming more and more just like a bad mockery of a classic Tom Clancy-style plot.

Also, I don’t even want to imagine what absurd explanation they’ll find for Jack’s powers (which are by far more powerful than anything we have seen a Changeling do).

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For all that many like to hold up the Federation and Starfleet as an example of … well, a lot of things, the writers sure like to show it as something that has to be reminded and/or shamed into upholding its stated noble principles by Great Men (and women). Because, I guess, actually having them just Be Better is “boring” / makes for poor TV.
(and yes, I acknowledge that first season TNG was often insufferably smug and condescending about how “evolved” they all were, but surely there is some other path to take.)

maybe, as some have suggested, it’s simply that utopia is harder to imagine or believe in when things look so bleak in RL, as they do now (much more than in the 90s) for many. Trek has always reflected its times, often with unsubtle pokes at the audience to Be Better. again, however, IMO there are a couple of ways to go about that.

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Hard not to agree with your analysis, and in particular about the causes of what we may call, for the sake of simplicity, ‘darkness’.

Still, perhaps I’m an optimist or an idealist, but I believe that, when you take on your shoulders, as a writer, a Trek series, it doesn’t matter how bleak RL is, you have the duty to stand by that vision. I mean, by now, in retrospect, the '60s, or the '90s, look far better. But they were far from being perfect times either. The “Be Better” message was sent by showing on screen how a better world could be. Not perfect, for sure, but better.
So, it should be much more needed right now. It’s not just bleakness in RL that makes everything darker…I believe it is plain sloppiness in imagination, too.
But perhaps I’m too harsh on this.

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I don’t think you are, no. It’s definitely had a different tone.

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You get changeling device that operates for 30 seconds, with a 5 minute cooldown.

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Watched Episode 8 and…I don’t know.

I hate that darkness, I really hate it. The beginning of the episode is extremely dark (in all senses) for Star Trek, at least the way I see it. The whole scene in which Vadic kills T’Veen seems to me to come straight from a dark thriller, and I found it, in all honesty, unpleasant at most in a Star Trek episode. The whole episode is technically amazing, is well played by the actors, etc…from this point of view, it is a very good episode, and well-toned with the season so far. But this is precisely the main issue, in my eyes.
Is Star Trek really about darkness, mindless killing, violent and dramatic murder of innocent people in a starship hallways? If it were an entry in any other franchise, I’d have praised the drama and the whole episode, but, hey, this is Star Trek. Or, at least, it should be Star Trek. If it wasn’t for our beloved and familiar TNG people, I wouldn’t believe I’m watching a Trek episode.
Speaking of which: I loved the complete TNG reunion. Data vs. Lore was touching, to say the least (though personally I didn’t like the idea of resurrecting Data, this nostalgic touch…well, touched me). The Shrike finally exploding with Vadic going in a thousand pieces was satisfying.
But still, all of this is not enough to make me forget about the rest. Perhaps, quite the opposite. Even the fact that the writers made everything in their power in order to make us hate Vadic, the Shrike, and its unknown, mindless crew (they didn’t even really bother to tell us who they were…were they Changelings or not?) is far from being in the spirit of Star Trek. And the fact that they probably succeeded in doing that, well, doesn’t help at all. People get disintegrated. No prisonders from either side.
And now everything has been set up for the final revelation! From Tom Clancy, we are quickly moving to a mix of H. P. Lovecraft and Mass Effect. I love both the writer and the videogame, but they are quite different from Trek…or aren’t they? I bet the mysterious villain is not a Changeling at all, but some other entity we already know and who manipulated the Changelings.
Disappointed and sad, I look forward to see what contrived explanation the writers will find now for Jack’s incredible powers (and their connection to Picard), waiting for another villain to pop up and show its evil plot to destroy (again) Starfleet and the Federation with overwhelming power more overwhelming than that of the Shrike.

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They’re beautiful.

But I am sad.

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388

Can we purge DS13 transporters…like right now? :exploding_head:
That episode legit made me tear up. :smiling_face_with_tear:

Now that emotions have passed a little. I’m a wee bit disappointed that the Changlings and the implications that could have been were just a small plot device to lead up to the big baddie, the Borg.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this episode is the last mention of the Changelings although they’ll still have the address the fact that there are infiltrators in Starfleet. That being said, the biggest villain in TNG was the Borg, not the Changlings (Dominion) so it makes sense that somehow…the Borg Queen has returned.

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She already did, though. Shouldn’t they have Queen Jurati on speed dial?

Also, as I said on discord, I agree with Timo: nostalgia bombs aside, this season has been incredibly dark, particularly for anyone who isn’t part of the main cast. (And I don’t mean how the sets are lit.)
from the get-go, it’s been almost non-stop fear, paranoia, distrust, being hunted, having friends and allies and even your own technology turned against you.
there’s been so much screaming (and confusion, panic, even begging) on the audio channels. :grimacing:

like… if you’re a junior officer on the Titan or most of those other ships, just eat a phaser, it’ll be quicker.
you’ll die terrified either way, but you’ll suffer less first.
(aw, but these old people get to all sit around the same table again, isn’t that nice?)
right, that’s enough of that, back to the running and screaming and spacings and disintegrations.

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Thankfully @Mudd has already summarized what I was going to write, once again :disappointed:

My disappointment is now total and (possibly) definitive. I’ve never seen a more blatantly contrived villainous plan exploiting a more blatantly stupid contingent plan (that of Starfleet). To be correct, I have seen it many times (see later), but I didn’t expect to see it again, and not on this scale. I mean, it is embarassing how anyone, in Starfleet, could have possibly conceived of such a plan of getting all Starfleet…connected?? I mean, not just networked, which would make sense, but actually automated?? Did anyone read what had happened with Daystrom’s evil computer? Did anyone ever heard of…well, the Borg?? Speaking of which: I agree with @S-Hauen_Jarok , they just resurrected (again?) the big evil buddies as usual…just, this time, after the previous season, it wouldn’t make any sense at all!! There’s a huge Borg 2.0 (in the absence of a better definition) ship just in Sector 001, which is part of, or at least allied with, Starfleet, and nobody call them? Even worse, they didn’t know anything about the evil Borg plan? They didn’t find any evidence with all their super-human artificial capabilities? Nothing? They just threw them at us last season and then…forget about them?

Seriously, it is ridiculous. And I’m angry, in all honesty (in case it wasn’t obvious already by reading my rants). Starfleet assimilation is ridiculous. The way it happened is ridiculous. The boomer-nightmare of all young people getting assimilated and acting as one against the older ones is ridiculous.
And the trope of the all-connected fleet of new ships getting rogue and being defeated by older, but non-connected, and thus more effective, ships, is getting definitely…old. It happened dozens of time in dozens different franchises/movies/series. C’mon!

And the potential damage to the Star Tre galaxy is staggering. How the hell would it be possible for Starfleet to recover from such a thing? Seriously. How? Not just in terms of material losses (starting with the Spacedock, which I bet will just be shown exploding at the very beginning of next episode, and let’s remind that a spacedock houses thousands and thousands of people), but also of morale, of psychological suffering from those who’ll survive and for the de-assimilated people (because we all know they will get de-assimilated, don’t we? And how you pass over the fact that you killed all your older crewmates and other innocent people? Or they will just gloss over it with a wink?), of reputation (both inside and outside the Federation…who would trust such an organization which so grossly miscalculated dangers, anymore??). Who would choose to enlist in Starfleet after all this? What Federation member would accept Starfleet as the main space branch of the Federation anymore? And I could go on and on.
And they even killed Shelby! Just for fun. Just after the usual, useless, speeach about how beautiful Starfleet is (which is getting more and more to look like a joke the screenwriters give us; it seems they think exactly the opposite).
At this point, let the assimilated fleet just blow Earth up, and get done with it, and then pretend it’s all happening in a huge Star Trek multiverse.

I was happy to see finally an Odyssey on screen, and the Big D (though I believe it is another sign of excessive nostalgia), but all of the rest just destroyed everything else.
And I hated they killed Shaw (as I predicted at the very beginning of the season, though not in the way I expected), his was an interesting character.

And my apologies for all my long rants.

And yes…that’s because I’m really suffering inside.

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I’m enjoying it for what it is, as I’ve said from the start, I’m not taking it seriously otherwise I would be just as upset Timo, understand and agree with everything you’ve said.

Not to mention the fleet museum, was Geordi and his daughter the only officers aboard that thing? Like… any Borg on that station just letting Ent D waft on out through the barn doors?

Shelby, who fought the Borg head on, to die sitting in her chair confused after Picard gives half a warning.

Shaw, I am sad about, and …

My only wild theory is that the last episode the Enterprise D, after taking a beating, will slingshot around the sun after Captain Kirk’s body is resurrected under project phoenix and was aboard the D the entire time. Shaw will be saved by Kirk, who takes the shot instead, and then the Ent F will fly in with an alive Shelby as she only suffered two full shots through her body and it takes atleast three to kill her for plot reasons.

The D will metamorphosise into Omega Supreme, each enterprise comprising of a limb, with the D’s saucer section forming a metallic and rugged Picard face.

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Well, I would watch that, honestly. Surely with more interest than the one I’ll have in watching the true season finale.

With one addition though: I want a Gundam in it.

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I am here for Starfleet Voltron!

And Tenacious D memes.

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Now that I ‘calmed down’…the more I think about it, the more I understand what is that gets to my nerves more than everything else: the lack of coherence. Narrative coherence, that is. We saw three seasons of the same series, but they seem to be almost totally disconnected each from the other. Now, I think they will try to put some patch on this next week, but that is what it will be: a patch. Actually, I believe they purposefully wanted to connect all three series with a big leitmotif: something about connection and linking synthetic and organic. Still, it blatantly doesn’t work.
Entire plot pieces are seemingly forgotten and suddenly left aside (the final ‘anomaly of doom’ of season 2; the Borg 2.0; the android world; etc…not to mention the 200+ Starfleet squadron of season 1, of which we hear nothing anymore, even now that all of Starfleet should be in Earth orbit) while others are resurrected, apparently at random. You can see that there’s a connection, or that at least the writers there wanted to be one…but at the same time you can see they didn’t take it too seriously themselves. At least, this is the impression they gave me.

And this leads me to the second point: the leitmotif. I mean, it is clear the core concept is: connection. But it is getting annoying. We had it as a theme of Discovery season 1, then 2, then 3; then Picard season 1, then 2, then 3. Characters feeling disconnected who have to find their connection…but in a very blatant, verbose way. It is never subtle. It is always repeated, explicitly, many, many times throughout the series. It is, as I said, annoying. And it is, at least from my point of view, the symptom of a serious lack of imagination, lack of vision for the franchise, reduced to repeat a stale topos over and over again.

All of this, adding to the damage I believe they did more in general, like with the whole ‘dark’ stuff (and the last episode is one of the worst, probably, in this regard) to the franchise whole concept, lore, and setting, is probably why I am so upset.

Don’t know, just a few opinions I gathered by still thinking about the episode.

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EDIT: I finally remembered what the last episode Starfleet assimilation thing reminded me…it’s Battlestar Galactica!

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so um… this exists now…

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Yes it does, and I like how they did it (one of the few things I liked).

Though, in my heart, it always existed. I strongly believe the Odyssey is one of the best (if not the best) design STO ever came up with.

Darn, I want its model :(

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I believe we will be getting said model when the revanp comes out… next week?

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Thomas Marrone has said that the remodel has been done and is basically ready to go, but they were going to wait for it to have it’s “moment in the sun” with Picard first. So in theory, at some point between now and the heat death of the universe, we may get this model :smiley:

But at some point along that path, we WILL get it!

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Nono, I actually meant the die cast model…unfortunately I was never able to get the Odyssey or the Yorktown before Eaglemoss went bankrupt…