Discussion: Secession and the Federation

[omn]

Secession and the Federation Public Thread CC CAPT Thiessen, CMDR Caspius, Academy Staff FROM CAPT Buchanan

In wake of recent events, I thought it would be prudent (and in keeping with the spirit of the Federation) to open up a public forum in order to.. clear the air, in a sense. However, we're all busy people, and the offer of free cake only goes so far. Therefore, I thought we'd hold a discussion here, on the Starbase's public subnet server. This public thread exists for legitimate discussion of the dual secessions of Annatar and Eledri, and the recent events that contributed to their grievances, along with discussion of the topic of secession in general. Off-topic discussion and trolling will be removed, and if the poster of said content is a member of Starfleet, they may be subject to reprimand. Please try to avoid making unsourced claims. I strongly encourage Academy students to participate in this discussion. Healthy debate is a core pillar of the Federation.

Member states have left the Federation before. Historically, Vulcan, Zaran, Andor, Zeta-Atez and Bajor have all considered secession. Notably (and this is by no means a comprehensive list), the planets Kerovi, Zalda, Selevia, and Turkana IV left the Federation by secession, with Turkana IV standing out as an extreme example of a state that simply fell apart after leaving the Federation. However, not all secessionist states suffer the fate of Turkana IV.

To start us off: Is it acceptable for a state to leave the Federation? Why or why not? Is the Federation at fault for recent events? If not, who is?


//SIGNED//

Captain Jack Buchanan
Cadet Services Coordinator, Deep Space Thirteen Academy Annex

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Relevant Reading:

Echomet

• Dispatches from the Echomet Daily Bulletin
• AAR - A Visit to Echomet ((18 Feb))
• AAR - A Visit to Echomet II
• Echomet / Federation Membership Application Discussion
• AAR - Decision On Echomet
• AAR - New Circini - 'A Delicious Acquisition' Incident, Contraband Eggs
• AAR: Co-op (USS October, USS Vanguard)
• AAR: Reclamation of Irreo Youth
• GNN - Starfleet Denies Involvement in Keltierre Aggression

Annatar

• AAR - Annatar Distress Call
• AAR - The Osprey Situation
• FNS - Annatar Regretfully Withdraws From Federation Membership

Eledri

• FNN - Eledri Bureau Secession

(( OOC: I definitely missed plenty of relevant topics. Please link me to more if you'd like me to include them. ))

[Sophist]

CPO Laro Nazair 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

It's absolutely acceptable for any Federation member to withdraw from the union. We're a collective of free people and free people have the right to decide if they want to be part of that collective. You can disagree with their reasons, but to dismiss their right to leave is to say that the Federation has the right to rule over people against their will. That's tyranny. There's plenty of fault to go around, but Starfleet deserves its fair share. We've been throwing our weight around like we own the place for a long time. It's just been a while since we've been called on it by folks who aren't obvious bad guys. (And you ask some people around here, the Echomets are bad guys just for that alone.) The way we swagger, you'd think the Prophets gave us a divine mandate to police the galaxy as we see fit. As we say on Dreon VII, this is just our raptor coatls coming home to roost.

[Master_Dex]

CDT Mitsuki Rumiho 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

I find it hard to disagree overall with the Chief who posted before me. Going off entirely what I know, the right for Federation secession is a naturally progressive one. In my birthplace of San Francisco, centuries ago people there lived in an older nation state that did not allow secession from a union. At the time this was considered necessary and was agreed upon due to political and economic constraints. The same was for a time true of United Earth before the Federation, as necessity made unity the best option following an nearly apocalyptic war. It is considered that were Earth not in such a poor state already, many factions may have resisted a unification at the time. The point is that by the time of the Federation economic concerns were gone, and politics and defense were focused on. These are not constant issues though so it makes sense to allow the option for change down the road. If anything the Federation maintaining and growing as it has is a testament to people's desires for unity, while also respecting some desires for it to not be forced. I am too young to truly speak to Starfleet conduct I think, so I can only hypothesize. I would like to believe we have done our best in an ever chaotic galaxy after some massive shake ups. Recent events have a lot of people scared I would suspect that following conflicts with crazy enemies like the Iconians has instilled a subconscious thought in many of Starfleet's members that we need to be tougher on issues to stop problems before they happen, and maybe we are creating different problems. I can only hope as my career barely begins soon that Starfleet can learn from this to remember what is it about. I want to be part of that fix for sure, not part of a no-nonsense military that makes some officers I know shake their head and scares it's own people.

[DePoe_]

CDT Ashley Terik 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

To answer your first point, sir, I would like to agree with the previous posters that any Federation member, be they new or old, has every right to leave the Federation if they see it fit to do so, whether it be economically, politically, or socially. As for the second point, perhaps my status as a Cadet leaves me biased with what some may call Federation "Propaganda," but I find it hard to believe Starfleet had any intention of causing any of these worlds harm. Starfleet's primary purpose is one of exploration and defense, and history has shown it rarely, if ever "bullied" a world into submission in order for it to achieve its goals. Nor has the Federation. And the few times history has recorded such a thing happening, the perpetrators were usually punished by Federation authorities. While Starfleet may have had some hand in the recent disputes between local systems and the Federation, I sincerely doubt that they had any malicious intention behind them. The same can be said for worlds who thought their way of life was suffering under Federation governance. I doubt there was any malicious attempt to alter the societal ways for a species, though I will admit there still may have been intentional pressure towards that society for change from some corners of Federation space.

[Davin]

Dr. Sariel of P'Jem 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

Abandoning the Federation is neither acceptable nor logical. Membership of the Federation is not something that should be taken lightly by any potential or current member. Membership comes not simply with the resources and benefits of alliance with numerous worlds but with a duty to those worlds to provide in kind, in peace as well as throughout the wars which have proved the necessity of the Federation time and time again. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. This adage has guided the Federation since it's inception, spurred many to acts of great heroism and sacrifice. However it also requires that The Many protect their interests from those Few, the rash, emotional reactionaries who would weaken us all in the name of liberty. If a world is unable to fulfill it's obligations to the Federation, as was the case with the historic Andorian Withdrawl, then secession is the only logical course. However Eledri Prime and Annatar follow the more dangerous path of Turkana IV, spurning the Federation in the name of their own vainglorious pride. Such a course is not only illogical, it is dangerous to the Federation and, ultimately, the worlds themselves. By this action, we are all diminished.

[Sophist]

CPO Laro Nazair 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

So, uh. That was a helluva thing.

[Master_Dex]

CDT Mitsuki Rumiho 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

Off topic! Crazy Admiral shenanigans is not about secession. We should probably open a thread for that though.... なぜなら...たわごと. Er... pardon my crudeness.

[Konieczko]

LTJG Jonathan Cullum 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

Yeah I was gonna say, looks like the admiral just seceeded from the Federation. What does this mean? Did we by extension seceed?

[xanthestar_]

LT JG Zanek Kelda 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

Secession is okay but the reasons behind them might not be. As someone who was born on Eledri Prime, what happened to our High Minister was the worst. But that doesn't mean it's okay for an entire world to run away from the organization that made us what we are! I grew up around humans and andorians and bajorans and every kind of offworlder. Eledri are part of the Federation community socially and stuff. Laozai was going to keep making that more like that and then the new High Minister is trying to throw all of that away. There should be a BETTER process for leaving the Federation once you're in it. Our new High Minister and her staff were able to pull us out completely without any trouble. Behind closed doors, too. That's wrong! The Eledri people love the Federation and we didn't have a choice. That's wrong. Wrong wrong wrong. We're supposed to have a voice. My parents and family didn't choose to leave the Federation. They're just as sad about High Minister Laozai's death as me but they deserve to have their choice count. They didn't get to choose.

[omn]

PROF Jack e-Buchanan tr'Veras 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

It could strongly be argued that the Admiral's actions not only fall under the purview of 'recent events', but are pertinent to the discussion on the grounds that they could be considered the latest in a string of events wherein Starfleet seems to act as agitators, unsanctioned though they may be. As a result, I will be provisionally allowing such discussion, unless it appears to be leading this forum too far off course.

[Master_Dex]

CDT Mitsuki Rumiho 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

Roger that sir, I take back my statement. In response to Zack.. er.. Lt. Kelda, I am really sorry that you and your family are being forced into this by your government. It must be especially hard since you are in Starfleet. I stand by my earlier points but I agree with you it shouldn't have been so easy for your government to pull out without the consent of popular majority at least. It would be wrong of me to speculate how that might have been done or whether that government would find a way to trick the system. It is not my place to assume corruption, despite how things might look. On that note though, I wonder if a better method of secession would be a member world level thing or a larger top down reform in the Federation Council itself. Would that be seen as the Federation impinging on world rights? If so we can't guarantee any member world can have a similar or as such 'fair' way to go about this. My personal opinion is it would be better for the Federation Council to make absolutely sure all peoples of a world are in at least majority agreement and not being forced by a government body, but I understand how that looks and why governments like the Eledri Legacy or Annatar might view that as the kind of thing that instigated their decisions.

[DePoe_]

CDT Ashley Terik 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

I would find it hard to accept if the Federation Council dictated how a planet could leave the Federation beyond administrative and bureaucratic policy. The decision itself and how that decision is made should be no higher than planetary level, as much as we may disapprove of the method chosen. The lieutenant disapproves of the method his world chose to leave, and that's fine. It is his world and his right to question it. But to presume that the Federation should dictate to its members that they should follow only a single example is pretentious at best.

[xanthestar_]

LT JG Zanek Kelda 38th Fleet Deep Space 13

Thanks, Rumi. Cadet Terik, it's not so weird to make a stipulation for joining or staying in the Federation. Isn't the idea to let us all have our freedoms? If it's set up so that our government can make what I guess you'd call like a totalitarian move like pulling us out without a vote, then what's the point of the Federation? That's just my opinion but there should be a rule involving a popular vote or something. It's not right that the Federation makes it so easy for someone in a position of power so speak for everyone without their opinion mattering. The city I grew up in is basically a shrine to Starfleet and stuff! The person who killed our High Minister was awful but ... Eledri Prime without offworlders isn't Eledri Prime.

[Mudd]

CAPT Sanara Draz 38th Fleet U.S.S. Saraswati

For whatever it's worth, I believe the official answer is "that's an internal matter"; that the decision whether or not to be part of the Federation lies with a planet's leaders, and if the people disagree with that decision, they should follow the established procedures to change it and/or their leaders. That's all I have to say on the subject at this time.